Cascadia - Articles/News: Eastside Rail Radio Links

Follwing are MP3 links to two radio talk show interviews January 17 of Cascadia Center Director Bruce Agnew, on the proposed Eastside commuter rail line, and Cascadia's new Eastside TRailways Partnership.

KIRO-AM 710, Dave Ross Show, Eastside rail segment. Aired approx. 9:35 a.m., 1/17/08.

KBCS-FM, 91.3, Francesca Lyman, One World Report, Eastside rail segment. Aired approx. 6:20 p.m., 1/17/08. (Transcript below, following Dave Ross Show transcript).

TRANSCRIPT, DAVE ROSS SHOW

DAVE ROSS, KIRO 710 AM: One of the projects that we really like around here is the proposal to take that old rail line - remember the Dinner Train line on the Eastside that went from, what, Renton to Woodinville, up and down the Eastern shore of Lake Washington? It scoots along the shore for a while, then it turns inland and goes up to Woodinville...and up into Snohomish as well, and there are a couple of branches of it. The railroad wants to sell it, and there's been a deal to sell it, but depending on who you talk to, the rails are going to be ripped up or not ripped up.....At a time when voters are getting sticker shock at the price of light rail, a lot of us figured, hey, wait a second. If they want to sell this, let's buy it. It can't possibly be as expensive as building a whole new thing. And the fact that it roughly parallels 405....Look at the traffic on 405. Clearly there are people who need to travel north and south through that corridor. Why not do something with it?....The Cascadia Center think tank jumped in on this. Bruce Agnew has an update on it today, as a matter of fact. And I think he's here right now. Let's go to Bruce Agnew of the Cascadia Center, part of the Discovery Institute. Bruce, you've got a number of community meetings going on, including one tonight. You had one last night, is that right?

BRUCE AGNEW, CASCADIA CENTER: Yes, good morning Dave. We had a great turnout in Kirkland, led by the Mayor, and a lot of citizens. We brought various groups together - the Cascade Bicycle Club, Transportation Choices, All Aboard Washington. I call it "governance by grassroots." We put together an initial idea about a rail and trail along the corridor, and there was a lot of energy in the room.

(Below, Tri-Rail's Diesel Motor Unit coach, SE FL)

DAVE ROSS: Good. Now...when this first bubbled to the surface the idea was that it would be completely privately financed, and it would be paid for by developing the land around the line with retail and residential. Is that still what you're talking about?

BRUCE AGNEW: We're talking about a mixture of public and private financing. We'd like to see the track rehabilitated by public agencies like Sound Transit, Metro and Community Transit, since it extends up into Snohomish County. But the stations and the trail development and some of the other track work like sidings could be paid for by private developers in nodes around stations where they want to put in some various software parks or housing. For instance, Metro has a plan for housing that goes around the South Kirkland park-and-ride lots, similar to what was done with the streetcar in Seattle.

DAVE ROSS: So, what's the timeline here? When would you actually get a test train running?

BRUCE AGNEW: Well, we need to remind your listeners that the Port (of Seattle) has to complete the deal with BNSF, which is pending. All indications are that its going forward and then the feds have to approve it, and then the Port of Seattle - and I think they deserve a pat on the back, it's been a little rough for them lately - they'll move forward with a public process on this in '08. We're proposing that '08-'09 is when the track is improved and the trail is developed. And we're looking at a pilot project between Snohomish and Bellevue initially, maybe in a year or two, and then of course after the Wilburton work is done on 405, looking at the Renton-Bellevue sector, and working closely with King County on that, and the trail folks. So it could first initially be Snohomish-Bellevue and then south of Bellevue after that.

DAVE ROSS: Now, are you pretty sure you're going to be able to preserve the tracks, because that was the big issue here. The county seemed to be intent on ripping up the tracks as quickly as possible.

BRUCE AGNEW: That was the initial proposal by Ron Sims. But I've got to give Ron Sims a lot of credit. He's been very open to alternative ideas, and he just thought he could get the trail done quickly with county money, but since, with the failure of Prop. I, there's just so much more interest in doing something on the Eastside. So I think the technical work we paid for by BNSF's retired folks, in terms of looking at what it would cost to rehab the tracks, specifically, about $37 million for those 42 miles of track, is doable. And, you know, we could do that in '08, after the public process, and then look at who might operate the train (in) '09, or maybe 2010.

DAVE ROSS: Has there been any resistance to this? Because that track goes through, crosses quite a few driveways there, just between Renton and Bellevue. What do those property owners say about this?

BRUCE AGNEW: We had several folks that live in Houghton that had major concerns about having a regional rail system right by their property, and our Eastside TRailway Partnership, where we want to bring all the interests together, trail and train advocates, we're going to put homeowners into that group, neighborhood councils, because they need to be part of the development of the stations. We emphasize the Diesel Multiple Unit, which is extremely quiet, it's basically not louder than a bus, instead of the traditional commuter rail, which has a loud locomotive and a bunch of train sets following it. The DMU is extremely quiet, very neighborhood friendly, burns biofuel, carries bikes. We'd like the folks that live next to the corridor to feel like they are part of the process and part of the ownership of the corridor, so I think it's important to listen to those concerns up front.

DAVE ROSS: Give us a vision of what this would look like. Is there anything like it in other cities?

BRUCE AGNEW: Yes. There's rails and trails around the country. San Diego is working on one. There's a variety of places that basically have trains and trails co-existing. (San Diego region's North County Transit District "Sprinter" DMU, below left).

You certainly have to put up some sort of small fence to separate the two. But I think the vision is a quiet train operating once a half hour or maybe an hour, and a good trail system with small stations that are community oriented, lots of stops. We could see at South Kirkland park-and-ride a transfer to bus rapid transit at an expanded park-and-ride on (State Route) 520, and I think it would be a major boon to economic development and tourism, getting people up to Snohomish County, and it'd just be a wonderful amenity for somewhere between $100 million and $300 million...I just think this is going to be a great opportunity for the community to get involved in the development of this and feel some ownership in it.

DAVE ROSS: Well, we're talking about then an amenity, not something that would reduce congestion on (Interstate) 405?

BRUCE AGNEW: It will. I mean if you look at those DMU units that are double-deck, they can carry up to 400 people. By contrast, the Amtrak train, The Cascade service to Porftland and Vancouver carries about 200 people. So they do carry people. But what we're not talking about is a high-capacity transit system like light rail that would operate every seven minutes or so. I think that should help the neighbors understand that this is really a low impact, real amenity that will increase their property values in combination with the trail, because the trail will carry a lot more people than the train, when you think about how crowded the Burke-Gilman Trail is. It might be important to take the community folks to other neighborhoods that have done this, and see it firsthand.

DAVE ROSS: Bruce, what do you think the total public contribution is going to have to be?

BRUCE AGNEW: We are moving ahead with raising private funding on the Eastside to do a ridership study which is going to answer the questions about how this fits in with plans for (Interstate ) 405 and (State Route) 522 and Highway 9. But if you look at Austin - and I'm glad the Chamber is taking a bunch of us down there - they are doing a DMU type service where they rehab the tracks...

DAVE ROSS: And again, DMU is this Diesel.....

BRUCE AGNEW: Diesel Multiple Unit, a self-propelled railcar, it doesn't have a separate locomotive, so its very quiet, very fuel efficient and burns biofuels. Well, they're using a DMU unit in Austin on 32 miles and they bought five train sets, built stations, built some amenities, and it came out to around $92 million for the 32-mile corridor. Now, keep in mind, the Port of SEattle is in the process of purchasing it, so that adds $103 million, but the development costs are probably somewhere in the $100 million to $250 million (range), maybe $300 (million) when you factor in the trail development concurrently. I think that's fairly reasonable, when you look at the cost of highway and major transit projects in the region.

DAVE ROSS: Well yeah. $300 million....and how many miles is that?

BRUCE AGNEW: It's 42 miles from Renton to Snohomish and then you've also got a spur that goes from Woodinville to Redmond, and it averages 100 feet of right-of-way, and you think about the value of that, and the Port purchasing that. It's really a remarkable public asset.

DAVE ROSS: The department of transportation is going to widen 405 and that would sever the rail line. This $300 million includes keeping the thing attached?

BRUCE AGNEW: That's a good point. We're suggesting that we try to do a pilot project with commuter rail between Renton and Bellevue initially, understanding that the 405 expansion project is going to sever the rail line south of Bellevue to Renton. We'll take a look at that section long term. And the county, Ron Sims and his folks, have plans to develop a trail first there, and I think the community needs to weigh in on that. We think eventually the entire corridor should be commuter rail.

DAVE ROSS: Okay. Your $300 million figure doesn't include re-attaching the rail line, where it's going to be broken.

BRUCE AGNEW: No, it does not. Nobody's really done the engineering on that.

DAVE ROSS: That would be extra. Because I'm just trying to get a ballpark figure here to see whether it passes the financing test among the listeners. Who as you know, are worried about spending money that they don't have. Thanks, Bruce.

BRUCE AGNEW: Thank you, Dave.

DAVE ROSS: Bruce Agnew of the Cascadia Center. They're going to be having - oh, by the way Bruce - where's your meeting tonight?

BRUCE AGNEW: It's at Angel Arms Works, which is an old church, 203 (Avenue) B, Snohomish, and we have lots of folks that are going to be there, it starts at 5:30, so come on up and join us.

DAVE ROSS: Okay, 5:30, Angel Arms Works in Snohomish......Thanks, Bruce.

BRUCE AGNEW: Thanks, Dave.

DAVE ROSS: There's a little thumbnail sketch of what we're talking about with this Eastside rail line. It would be $300 million (plus) whatever it costs to re-attach that bridge, which could be, I don't know - $10, $20 million. And the question is, we've discussed this for months now, I know in the beginning it was dismissed just as a pipe dream, a fantasy of people who should confine their fantasies to their model railroad sets in the basement. But it's getting some high-powered support now, you had Aaron Reardon there, the Snohomish County Executive, you had the Mayor of Kirkland, you (have) members of the King County Council, and you've got private investors. Is this something you'd be willing to have public money spent on? That's the straw poll I want to take in the next few minutes.

(Two calls are taken before the topic changes, one pro, one con).

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TRANSCRIPT, ONE WORLD REPORT

FRANCESCA LYMAN, KCBS: For several years now, you’ve been at the Cascadia Center, helping to incubate the idea of a brand new, or at the least the renaissance of an old transportation mode in Seattle. And that’s the idea of turning an old rail corridor on the Eastside for use as mass transit. Can you tell us a little bit about the Eastside corridor, and what’s so exciting about this idea right now?

BRUCE AGNEW, CASCADIA CENTER: The Eastside rail line is owned by Burlington Northern and Sante Fe, and it had some freight on it, and the Dinner Train, until last July, and then they’ve abandoned it. King County originally wanted to purchase it and put a trail in, but the Port of Seattle has now stepped up and decided to keep the rail line in, which gives us a great opportunity to put commuter rail and build a first-class trail system along an entire corridor from Renton to Snohomish.

FRANCESCA LYMANL: Last night (at a community forum in Kirkland) did you feel there was a lot of excitement in the air at this idea?

BRUCE AGNEW: There definitely was a lot of energy in the room. We had folks from the bicycle club, and we had folks from the train advocacy community, and neighbors that abut to the corridor, so it was a very interactive discussion. I thought that people came away thinking that this was feasible and actually, fairly inexpensive. Totally, somewhere from $100 (million) to around $200 million for the entire corridor for a rail and trail and train sets and stations, and that compares very favorably with expanding 405, for instance.

FRANCESCA LYMAN: Well last fall there was, of course, the famous roads and transit ballot measure, the Prop. 1, and that went down to defeat. So now the politics of this is radically changed since a year ago, and you were saying last night that with the defeat of Proposition 1, there’s much more interest in looking at this, and also, people who were initially just for the trail, are now thinking about both, together.

BRUCE AGNEW: And credit goes to (King County Executive) Ron Sims for the original idea of public ownership, and the Port of Seattle, which is actually following through and purchasing the right of way as a public asset. Our intention, with the formation of this Eastside TRailway Partnership, is to find public and private money to fix the tracks and build the trail, simultaneously.

FRANCESCA LYMAN: Well what are some of the environmental benefits, like global warming and energy efficiency and fuel efficiency. They were all points of discussion last night. How does this proposal fit in to those concerns?

BRUCE AGNEW: A double-stacked, diesel multiple unit, which is a self-propelled rail car,, carrying 400 people every 15 minutes, takes a lot of cars off the freeway. And connects the Eastside, also connects the north-south corridor with 520 and 90 and bus and light rail into Seattle. The public health benefits from getting people out on the rail, riding bikes, strolling with their kids, is good for the environment and good for the health of individuals.

FRANCESCA LYMAN: So you see real estate opportunities along the line, creating little urban centers?

BRUCE AGNEW: Absolutely, with affordable housing, and Kirkland is talking about a mini-software area, with Google and Microsoft needing more space on the Eastside. There are some great potentials for open space, and transforming what has been an industrial corridor into a vibrant, human-scaled type development where people find it easy to walk and don’t necessarily need to have that second car or even the first car, for that matter.

FRANCESCA LYMAN: Now, is there anybody who is against this, at this point now?

BRUCE AGNEW: Yes, and we heard from a few of those folks, although I wouldn’t characterize them as against it, just asking questions and raising concerns. And those would be the folks that live next to the corridor. There’s obviously some concerns about noise, with regard to commuter rail. I don’t think the opposition on the trail is too much, because people have experienced, actually, an increase in property values, and the trail is quite an amenity. What we’re telling the neighbors is that we want you to get involved early on in the design of the stations so that you feel you can actually access this rail and trail corridor, because we anticipate lots of stops along the corridor. And we’ve also explained with these diesel multiple units, these self-propelled rail cars, (they’re) about 72 percent quieter than a typical commuter rail, and they operate less frequently. So I think, when they really experience this train and trail combination, they’ll believe that it actually adds value to their property.

FRANCESCA LYMAN: Well, thanks so much, Bruce. It was great to have you on.

BRUCE AGNEW: Thanks, Francesca.

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Additionally, here is a .wav file of a KIRO-AM 710 news report from Jan. 17 on the Jan. 16 Eastside rail forum in Kirkland. The story aired several times during morning drive.

TRANSCRIPT #1.......

JEFF POHJOLA, KIRO-AM: The Cascadia Center, a transportation think tank in Seattle, came up with the idea of running commuter trains on the abandoned Burlington Northern and Sante Fe lines. According to Director Bruce Agnew, it's a popular idea.

BRUCE AGNEW, CASCADIA CENTER (discussing the evening's forum): (There was) a lot of enthusiasm, some concerns from property owners about noise and such, but in general, a feeling we can make this work.

JEFF POHJOLA: Agnew says that because the rail line is already there, start up costs would be minimal. He says commuter trains could be running in just a few years. Jeff Pohjola, KIRO 710 News.

TRANSCRIPT #2

ANNOUNCER: A rail line is beiing envisioned for the Eastside. it's already getting some people excited.

REPORTER: I'm Jeff Pohjola. The proposed route would run along the Burlington Northern and Sante Fe line between Snohomish and Renton.

BRUCE AGNEW, CASCADIA CENTER: This rail corridor intersects with key east-west corridors, including 520 at the South Kirkland park-and-ride lot, also I-90, and down near Renton.

REPORTER: Bruce Agnew of the Cascadia Center think tank says a commuter train could be operational within a few years.

ANNOUNCER: And according to planners, the start-up costs would less than usual because they would make use of existing rail line.